you may have experience with the "discipleship", or you're a "disciple"? Or considering following? What's positive and what's negative in your view?
You want to share a story, experience, or a fact?
Or have a related question.... want to discuss!
ISIS is over, Hegomen Bishoy!
The last 'Family Retreat' with Hegomen Bishoy Andrawes, after the Israel conference. Hegomen Bishoy preached anti-family principles to the youth!:
1. If you're not called 'extreme' you're of the world!
2. All 'men of principle' should join ISIS!
3. Your 'divine love' will look like hate to your parents!
2. All 'men of principle' should join ISIS!
3. Your 'divine love' will look like hate to your parents!
4. The "good" tension at home because of God!
Hegomen Bishoy, ISIS is a CULT! not people of principle!
Now we break the good news to H. Bishoy:
ISIS has been destroyed.
Evil principles never prevail!
"The ungodly are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind drives away. ... For the Lord knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish." Psalm 1:4,6
OCA Anti-Family Part 2: Denigrating the Sacrament of Marriage!
Marital Unity Marred by the Original Sin... ?!!
Dr. Meshreky [Fr. Macarius] claiming the 'conflict' between the unity in marriage and the unity with God:
"Before the fall, this unity of the two partners as a husband and wife did not separate them from God because each of them was in a state of being united with God. This was the original picture and plan. After the fall, each partner started to seek the other partner because s/he feels lacking and that something essential is missing – because s/he is estranged from God. After the person receives the faith in Christ, s/he still seeks the visible other because s/he is not able to be fully united with God. This seeking of a visible other became an instinct and a deeply rooted thing in humanity. This is because Man became unable to fully find and unite with the unseen other, God, whom Man is called to unite with. This full unity with God is a walk which requires time and discernment of the steps of this walk. Therefore, an inner emptiness remains inside Man which seeks and needs the visible other." Book: 'THE BRIDE & THE END TIMES' Page 163-164
No wonder the cult advises against marriage!
- But the Bible says:
- "And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”" Genesis 2:18 before the fall.
- "And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Genesis 2:23-24 before the fall.
- "He who finds a wife finds a good thing, And obtains favor from the Lord." Proverbs 18:22
- "And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”" Matthew 19:4-6
- "But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”" Mark 10:6-9
- Discouraging marriage is one of Dr. Meshreky's cult similarities to Montanism heretical movement or sect https://www.britannica.com/topic/Montanism and http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10521a.htm
- It runs against Apostolic Canon 51 (see also http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3820.htm), and the Canons of the Council of Gangra.
Coptic priest vouches for excommunicated Atef Meshreky!
Hegomen Bishoy Andrawes’ in ‘letter to spiritual children‘:
“Now, regarding Dr. Atef Aziz (now Fr. Seraphim) and his group:
Fr. Seraphim is currently a respected monk in the Eastern Orthodox Church who started off as a consecrated deacon in the Coptic church. After many years in the ascetic life, Fr. Seraphim began to pass down the way he received. He taught mainly from the early fathers about the deep treasures of the Coptic Church and about restoring the image of God in us (taking off the old man and putting on the new one). Within his teachings, he at times mentioned the poor spiritual state of the Church. For this reason, he was asked to stop his teachings, and when his teachings still spread through his actual practice and the practice of those who received the way, he was excommunicated. Now I know that this will resound in a negative way with many of you. But, before you allow the logic of your mind take over, please take this information in prayer, considering the following:
- Fr. Mattew the poor, who is now considered a reliable source of spiritual light, was also criticized for speaking about the condition of the church.
- St. John Chrysostom was excommunicated according to Palladius (4-5th century church historian) by 36 bishops (29 of them were Coptic)
- Pope Tawadros himself attempted to restore this excommunication of Dr. Atef Aziz, but some of the bishops stood in his way
” end quote.
Full of inaccuracies:
- Dr. Atef Aziz and 12 of his disciples were excommunicated because of their heresies, prophesies, and practices, which they still spread and practice to this day. Not for the reason of mentioning the poor spiritual state of the Church. After 15 years of efforts by many clergy and consecrated to restore the repenting and attempting to straighten them up.
- The excommunication is a Coptic Synod decree, not a Papal one. The efforts to restore the “disciples” in the nineties, the investigations, as well as a 1996 warning decree were by the Coptic Synod. Pope Tawadros stated that this is a Synod’s business.
- Shortly after the letter, HH Pope Tawadros confirmed his support for the excommunication, and republished the Holy Synod's decree in the official Al Keraza, dated March 11, 2016.
- Inappropriate for a clergy to write, teach, and entrust against the leadership of the Church. Synod decrees and recommendations should be respected and followed.
- Soon after the hidden infiltration was discovered at St. Mark Church, the “brothers’ hurried to leave the Coptic Church and join the OCA with their leader.
- Comparing a heretic with St. John Chrysostom and Fr. Mattew the poor… ?! None of them would have even tolerated Dr. Atef’s Heresies. St. John Chrysostom is actually a reference in rebutting the heresies.
How many issues and fallacies you see in Hegomen Bishoy’s letter?
Your idea, story, questions…
you may have experience with the "discipleship", or you're a "disciple"? Or considering following? What's positive and what's negative in your view?
You want to share a story, experience, or a fact?
Or have a related question.... want to discuss!
St. Paul desired Church kept safe for only 4 centuries?!
From Dr. Meshreky's book "Responsibility for the Generation":
"
Responsibility toward the generation
Apostle Paul entreats his beloved disciple Timothy and speaks of the end times in 2 Timothy 2: 2, And the things that you heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
These words highlight the fact that apostle Paul desired the spiritual deposits to be kept and preserved for up to four generations. In this verse, the four generations are Paul, from Paul to Timothy, from Timothy to the faithful men, and finally, the faithful men to the others who were taught by them. Why did Paul have this preoccupation with the generations? It was because he understood the value of the spiritual deposits. He was given many revelations, and he knew that these revelations would keep the Church of God safe from divisions. If these revelations disappeared from the Church for one reason or another, divisions and problems would begin to appear in the Church.
Acts 20: 29-30 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.
From the first century, during Paul’s own life, he could see in the spirit, the wolves that would come and do harm to the flock and speak perverse things. He understood that the only way to keep the Church safe was to keep the spiritual treasures and revelations safe. He knew that his life was coming to an end, so he turned to his faithful disciple Timothy. Entreating him to take care of these words, and all the revelations that he had heard from Paul, and to live them out; not only living out the truths for himself, but also passing them on to the faithful, those who knew that they were receiving treasures and those who would take on the responsibility for these treasures. And in turn, the faithful would pass it along to others, so that as long as the treasures were passed on, the Church would be safe.
It is interesting that Paul was thinking of four generations. During that time, a generation implied a century. This means that Paul was thinking ahead to four centuries in order to keep the Church safe from divisions. If you study the history of the Church, it is amazing to find that the Church was actually kept safe from discord and united up until the 4th century. Divisions occurred after that, because the treasures and revelations began to be mingled with the world and its philosophies. The purity of the Spirit was no longer there.
In this very moment, you are receiving treasures. They are not my treasures, they are treasures that I received from the Lord and I am passing them on to you. Therefore, we must be treasure keepers, and must pass it on to those who are faithful. If you are willing to do this, you will then be entrusted by God, and will be anointed to minister to this generation. This is our responsibility - to be “treasure keepers.” May God enable us to be truly faithful and pass it along to other faithful people.
"
Meshreky, Atef (2016-01-12). Responsibility for the Generation (Kindle Locations 1163-1186). Anchor Publishing & Media. Kindle Edition.
That misinterpretation serves the purpose that all Apostolic Churches are dead, hence the need for the 'new anointed' to establish the 'new' Church! Dr. Meshreky throughout the lengthy writings does not provide even a single 'early father' nor 'early church' supporting reference.
It is a clear contradiction to the Book of Revelation, which prophesies the presence of the Lord and His care for His Churches, the journey all the way to the end times, and warns against adding or taking away from it.
How do you see the contradictions in Dr. Meshreky's misinterpretation?
The ‘Inner Man’
The book describes the 'Inner man':
- "it is not a spirit"
- "is exactly like the outer man; having parallel members: eyes, ears, hands, legs, and so on."
- "It begins in the form of a seed, in our spirit."
- If stunted in growth, "it can be seen as a face without eyes, a face and neck without hands, a face and neck without an abdomen, or missing any of the parts or members."
- If it had "fully grown" can be seen "with the same contour" of the person, "shining and the glory of Christ filling this inner man."
- "the 'inner man' is 'Christ in me'"
Is there any reference in the Bible or the 'early fathers' to deformed 'inner man' or 'Christ in me'?
What are the references for the 'anatomical' parallelism with physical body? And the proper process of growth?
“get cleansed by the power of the blood of Jesus, and proclaim the statements”
"Whenever sin occurs, make quick repentance... make quick repentance. This is very important, make quick repentance. Confess, get cleansed by the power of the blood of Jesus, and proclaim the statements, ask the Holy spirit to help you get restored." Dr. Atef Meshreky, 2nd talk [35], "Encounter with God" retreat, August 2016.
This is a process of repentance? Get cleansed through praying the "statements of the power of the blood of Jesus"? How was it before that prayer was authored?
How do you see repentance?
End time: what would you do differently?
If the end time is 2017, 2050, or 2000050, what would you do differently?
Fatherhood and motherhood end by youth adolescence?
Fr. Macarius (Dr. Atef Meshreky) talking to potential recruits on a boys retreat, August 2016:
"This is the last point I like to share with you and it is very important. Know about the manhood... manhood. I like to explain as much as I can with this delicate issue. I think we are in a generation with a special ailment.. special sickness.. special deficiency is all about the real fatherhood and motherhood. I know many many young men and young women who have been raised in q wonderful family, and their parents are really wonderful parents. But despite all this they have a lot of problems reflecting a lack of receiving the fullness of the fatherhood or motherhood. What is the problem then? The problem is that there's a la... it is not a problem of the parents, because they're doing their best. But the problem is about the proper understanding of this principle of manhood and fatherhood because they're so connected. And the other side also womanhood and God's motherhood. And this is very important principle like a treasure that was lost of the Church of God at some part of the centuries. Here's the understanding of the early Church. The early Church teaches that every person whether a male or a female, a man or woman, is born with a gift of the fatherhood, a dominant fath.. sorry.. I say this of something not yet released, hidden fatherhood or motherhood because of course this fatherhood or motherhood has its time to be released. What's the time? When they have kids, so that they can exercise their fatherhood or motherhood. And what happens usually? The parents will be exciting when they marry, waiting for the kids. And when the kids come they exercise their natural fatherhood and motherhood. And they give all they can give. All care, all love, all needs. Because they're reacting with the new gift, the kids with their natural hidden gift. Now trying to be released. But this does not work according to the teaching of the early church. Simply because it said no one can really have real fatherhood or motherhood. Only one who have the fatherhood and motherhood, God the father! Because of this the Bible speaks about God sometimes as a father and sometimes as a mother.." Dr. Atef Meshreky, 2nd talk [47], “Encounter with God” retreat, August 2016.
- Why a preacher never married or fathered is analyzing and criticizing fatherhood and motherhood for a small group of boys in a "recruiting" retreat?
- Why indirectly criticizing their parents as conflicting with the "early Church"'s "understanding"? Implying that their parents are standing in the way of their Christian life?
- Why then the highest title for a human in heaven is the "Mother of God"?
- Why Jesus cared about His mother and spoke to her while on the cross? Why He obeyed her at the wedding in Cana while He was an adult?
where's this coming from?
Secrecy!
"Then Peter said to Him, “Lord, do You speak this parable only to us, or to all people?”" Luke 12:41
Is the verse indicative that there was teaching closed only to the disciples? Is it a justification for modern day discipleships to be secretive?
what are the the justifications for discipling and practices only behind closed doors?
